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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:55 pm 
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When there's incestous rape going on, the father gets locked up for a very long time, the daughter gets lots of counselling, the kid gets put up for adoption, and everybody moves on.

Adoption is preferable to abortion. There are far more people who want to adopt a child than there are children to adopt. That's why there's a massive adoption waiting list.

The woman has taken an action, by failing to defend herself. It doesn't justify the attacker, mind you, but she has made an action. It's like if a man walks into a bad neighborhood wearing a suit and jewellry worth thousands of dollars. When he winds up mugged, we punish the people who robbed him. That doesn't mean he made a bad decision that started the whole thing.

Shooting someone who breaks into your house isn't killing them for money. It's killing them in self defense, because even if they're only after money, you have no way of knowing that. What I meant was more along the lines of paid assassinations.

You can try to will matter into existance all you want. I just tried. It's impossible, so it will never succeed, but you can try till you go crosseyed and blue in the face.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:08 pm 
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Nick, I assume you're male by your nickname (no pun intended) and I have to ask; Have you ever given birth to an illegitamate child?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:23 pm 
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What happens if a man gets raped, and the woman who rapes him carries the child? Is he responsible for it, then? I mean, fuck- he did create a life, there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:26 pm 
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nick012000 wrote:
When there's incestous rape going on, the father gets locked up for a very long time, the daughter gets lots of counselling, the kid gets put up for adoption, and everybody moves on.

Except when that doesn't happen. Which is often enough.

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Adoption is preferable to abortion.

So you say.

The question is: is adoption a replacement for abortion? You have not made much effort to show that is the case.

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The woman has taken an action, by failing to defend herself.

Are you joking?

No, seriously: are you joking?

I mean... honestly, i don't have a very high opinion of the defensibility of your beliefs as represented by this thread. But i did not expect this.

You're basically accusing women who get raped of being participants in their own rape. You're saying it's their fault for not fighting back/escaping?

I mean, Jesus!

I could go through one million counter-examples here, but in the interests of not driving myself crazy compiling the incredible list of things wrong with your argument here let's just try one or two.

What about rape under the effects of drugs? Now, you're probably thinking i'm going to go down the date rape route but i'm not. What about a woman who goes into the hospital to have, say, surgery and wakes up pregnant?

"She should have been more careful"? Bullshit! You don't know anything about what happened, here. (Well, except what i've already said, of course.)

Does that sort of stuff happen? Absolutely, though rarely.

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It doesn't justify the attacker, mind you, but she has made an action. It's like if a man walks into a bad neighborhood wearing a suit and jewellry worth thousands of dollars. When he winds up mugged, we punish the people who robbed him. That doesn't mean he made a bad decision that started the whole thing.

So all women who are raped are walking into a bad neighborhood dressed (presumably) in what we might call "slutty" clothes and therefore they are "asking for it"?

Or are you saying that women who step out into the real world are thus guilty of anything bad that happens to them?

Or, presumably, the ones who are born into abusive families and can't escape are also at fault for being born?

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Shooting someone who breaks into your house isn't killing them for money. It's killing them in self defense, because even if they're only after money, you have no way of knowing that.

There isn't necessarily knowledge of what an intruders goals are, but in any individual case those goals might be known. Nonetheless, even in a case where a person is only after your money and you know that you are still, under certain circumstances, justified in killing that person.

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What I meant was more along the lines of paid assassinations.

Which is not at all similar to abortion!

What a helpful analogy!

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You can try to will matter into existance all you want. I just tried. It's impossible, so it will never succeed, but you can try till you go crosseyed and blue in the face.

You're missing the argument, again.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Reason: Yes, I'm male, and no, I am not a father.

Rusty: Due to the sexism inherent in our laws, it is impossible for men to be raped by a woman. He is at fault for allowing himself into a situation where he could be forced into sex, but shouldn't be forced into supporting the child. If he wants to, though, that's great.

Winter:That's what's supposed to happen, if the system works.

Yes. Again, any life at all is better than death. Therefore, adoption is by definition better than abortion.

No, I am not joking. Everyone is responsable for their own decisions, and for the situations they choose to place themselves in. It is by her own choice she put herself in a position where she could be raped (which is very rarely in a bad neighborhood), and by her own choice that she did not possess a suitable weapon with which to defend herself. This is not to take responsability away from the man who raped her, mind you; he is entirely responsable for making the decision to rape her, and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

In the vast majority of date-rape cases, the only drug in the woman's blood is alchohol, and it was entirely her choice to take it. As such, the events that occur under the influence of alchohol are entirely her responsability. On the off chance she did get dosed with something other than alchohol... then yes, she should have been more careful.

A woman can always escape an abusive family. The women who don't are stupid, and their attachment to their abusers is working to their detriment. There is almost always a battered woman's shelter in any reasonably sized city, and the police are always willing to turn up and help (though they might not be there when she needs them).

It is absolutely similar to abortion. You're murdering an innocent person so that your quality of life is improved/maintained.

What is the arguement, then? That you need to be able to alter reality to exercise free will? That's stupid, and we both know it. If you seriously beleive that, seek help.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:53 pm 
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nick wrote:
She doesn't have to raise it. She can put it up for adoption the instant she gives birth to it, and never see it again. Why punish the child for the sins of the father?


What does that book you love so much have to say about that?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:38 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
The woman has taken an action, by failing to defend herself.


I'm sorry, but this has to be said. Warn me or whatever the fuck you admins think you need to do, but this has to be said.

Nick, you wonder why you're not liked around here. This shining piece of shit that you just said is exactly why. It's ignorant, callous and fucking stupid. Why? Because you're so fucking bent on filing your morality into black and white that you catagorize a woman's successful rape and subsequent impregnation as something that can just be written off...

My god. I mean, just... jesus.

A daughter who's raped by her dad goes into couselling, has the kid and life goes on? No. You obviously don't have a fucking clue, do you? It's bad enough when a kid is raped by their parents, but to have pregnancy forced on them because someone elses' morals demanded so is just vile.

Fucking. Vile. No kid wants to know that they came from the horrible, sick union of his own grampa fucking his mom, that he came from a forced union of hate, power and fear.

And no. There are times where a shitty life is worse than oblivion. At least with oblivion, you don't have to live out every single shitty day knowing you were a horrid mistake that came from something nearly unholy. Besides, if it works the way your beliefs say they do, the kids' soul would just go to heaven anyway, and that's much better than living out life knowing you were an unjust punishment for "a woman who failed to defend herself."

Think before you spew ignorant shit out of your mouth, Nick.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:29 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Rusty: Due to the sexism inherent in our laws, it is impossible for men to be raped by a woman...

Gee, that's funny because it happens all the time. According to our government, 5% of rape is rape of men. I suspect that's understating it, as well, but that's merely suspicion.

I didn't realize laws could negate reality, but maybe that's because i've been using "logic".

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He is at fault for allowing himself into a situation where he could be forced into sex...

You mean like his place of employment, a bar/nightclub, a sporting event, his college dorm, or his home?

Yes, that really was irresponsible of him. Going to work and all.

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...but shouldn't be forced into supporting the child. If he wants to, though, that's great.

A woman, on the other hand, should be forced into supporting the child of rape?

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Winter:That's what's supposed to happen, if the system works.

Yet it all too often does not, particularly in certain regions of the country where law enforcement tends to overlook such things. People die because of this.

But that's just the thing, you're (trying) to ignore the real issue here. Every example i bring up, you say would be impossible--or you simply ignore it or change the subject. Do you think i don't notice?

Sure, something else could happen. But what about when it doesn't? Those are the cases you seem to be intent on ignoring.

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Yes. Again, any life at all is better than death. Therefore, adoption is by definition better than abortion.

This is what you say. What if i disagreed and said i would prefer death to life? Would you say that i was wrong and had to live, even if i was mentally capable of making decisions and had personal reasons?

Because you're saying that you, nick, know better than everyone and that there is not situation in which you could be wrong.

I say that's garbage. Please support your claims with argument.

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No, I am not joking. Everyone is responsable for their own decisions, and for the situations they choose to place themselves in. It is by her own choice she put herself in a position where she could be raped...

Let's see... The victims in over half of all rapes in the United States know their attackers personally. In other words, the attacker is a friend, relative, or acquaintance of the victim.

Those irresponsible women... having friends and family! They should have known better!

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...(which is very rarely in a bad neighborhood), and by her own choice that she did not possess a suitable weapon with which to defend herself. This is not to take responsability away from the man who raped her, mind you; he is entirely responsable for making the decision to rape her, and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

And yet you insist that, in every possible scenario, the woman is somehow at fault. And this fault is so great she must be punished (that's what your reasoning is, after all) by being forced to bear a child if she gets pregnant.

Please support your claim that all women are so significantly at fault with argument.

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In the vast majority of date-rape cases... [snipped bullshit]

Which is why i very specifically avoided the date rape case. Because i knew what you were going to say. Please respond to the actual scenario i proposed, rather than the one you would have preferred i proposed.

(Incidentally, apparently those cases that escape your criteria are also cases in which you wish to force the victim to give birth?)

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A woman can always escape an abusive family...

Um...

No. Not always. The Phelpses, the Branch Davidians, the extreme Mormons and Christian Fundamentalists all have essentially enslaved women who have been unable to escape, despite trying. Sometimes, for attempting to escape their abusive families, they have been murdered.

Just because you say it--or wish it--does not mean it is so.

The police are not always on the up-and-up. There are not always shelters, particularly in areas where this sort of thing tends to take place: rural, Southern areas.

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...The women who don't are stupid...

And, according to you, must therefore be punished by being forced to bear (and maybe raise) the children of the rapist?

Are you for real? Because i'm starting to think you're an elaborate troll.

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It is absolutely similar to abortion. You're murdering an innocent person so that your quality of life is improved/maintained.

Except in all those cases where this is not true!

Once again, please support your claims with argument. You've already made this claim, i've challenged it. You can't defeat my challenge by re-making the claim--that's just circular logic.

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What is the arguement, then? That you need to be able to alter reality to exercise free will? That's stupid, and we both know it. If you seriously beleive that, seek help.

Please actually read the argument i presented. If it still doesn't make sense, please ignore it.

(Edit: I agree with Ryven. "Vile" is an apprporiate description.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:54 am 
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nick blaming women for being raped is probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen you say and you have said some really fucking dumbass things.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:46 am 
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Winter: How much of the male-victim rape is man-on-man rape, or woman-on-gay-man rape? I'll bet you it's almost all of that. This is ignoring the fact that in most cases, Rape charges are abandoned in favor of Sexual Assault charges, because the latter are easier to prove.

Alone with a woman, and no intention of having sex? Yes, that is his fault. Failing to defend himself against a (probably) physically weaker aggressor? Yes.

No. Giving birth to a child is not forcing her to raise the child, or love the child, or do anything else for the child. Pregnancy isn't that debilitating, and she can just get a C-section if she doesn't want to go through childbirth.

Law enforcement isn't perfect, no. That's what the 2nd Amendment and firearms are for. Also, I find it hard to beleive that non-corrupt cops would overlook a domestic violence case if the woman complained to them.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm addressing your points as I see them.

I say that if you want to kill yourself, that's your choice to make. It's a stupid, selfish, and cowardly choice, but it's your choice to make. It is not your choice as to whether or not other people live or die.

Yes, I knew about that statistic. You can't choose your family, you just aavoid them. You don't make freinds with the sorts of people who are going to rape you, and cease to be their friends if they demonstrate behaviors that indicate it's a possibility. A healthy sense of paranoia is sadly lacking in many people, however.

She isn't at fault, and she isn't being punished- at the very least, not to any significant degree. Woo, she gets fat, and her boobs get sore. Oohh... mood swings. Big whoop. It can't be that bad.

So she gets raped while drugged at the hospital? Hello, lawsuits. She's going to make millions. Not bad for nine months mild suffering, followed by a C-section, and adoption. Also, you editted your post to alter what it said, after I responded to it.

Steal his car, and drive like hell. If he doesn't have a car, wait for him to leave for work/the pub/whatever, then pack up your belongings and start walking. There's a lot of woods out there to get lost in, and once you escape that way, he'll never find you again unless you let him. If you've joined a cult... well, that's your own fault for joining a freaking cult!

I'm not trolling, Winter. Just trying to bat away the tangled cobwebs that you call 'morality'. What is the point of trying to protect one victim from whatever mild amount of trauma if it means victimizing someone else to a much more severe fashion?

Emotions are just another part of your quality of life. Murdering someone to protect your precious emotions is no better than murdering someone for money. Be rational. Emotions are worth nothing.

Ryven: Everything is black and white. Everything. There is no shades of gray, ever. Understand? Of course you don't. The idea that every situation can be boiled down to who is at fault and how much they are at fault is an alien idea to you. Don't worry, because I honestly don't bloody care if you understand. I'm primarily arguing with you because you're wrong, I'm right, and I'm more stubborn than anyone else here.

So the kid doesn't know. The mother moves on (again: emotions are useless. Leave them behind), the kid gets raised by adoptive parents who love him. Odds are, he'll never know his blood parents. If he tracks them down as an adult, he'll be mature enough to shrug, take the fact of his unusual ancestry on board, and move on. Emotions are worthless. Leave them behind. The only time they come in handy is when fear gives you the urge to survive, and the andrenaline to enhance your capabilities.

And yes, a shitty life is infinitely preferable to oblivion. In oblivion, you don't get to eperience the joy of a new day, the crispness of the air, the songs of birds, the cuteness of cats, and the simple joys of existing. I don't know what would happen to the kid's soul. I'm no preist. However, any life on this Earth is better than none.

I do think before I type. Your fixation on emotions blinds you to the rational thought behind my posts, because we come from completely different axioms of thought. Namely, the worth of life, and the worthlessness of emotions (both your own, and of others). Honestly, this is like trying to argue Euclidean geometry with people who think points and lines have measurable sizes.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:31 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Winter: How much of the male-victim rape is man-on-man rape, or woman-on-gay-man rape? I'll bet you it's almost all of that. This is ignoring the fact that in most cases, Rape charges are abandoned in favor of Sexual Assault charges, because the latter are easier to prove.


Rape isn't a charge. In court, rape is referred to as sexual assault. Sometimes aggravated sexual assault, if the defendant is thought to have had a weapon at the time of the rape.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:40 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Honestly, this is like trying to argue Euclidean geometry with people who think points and lines have measurable sizes.


No, it's more like trying to argue abortion with a fundiechristian with Aspergers.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:59 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Winter: How much of the male-victim rape is man-on-man rape, or woman-on-gay-man rape? I'll bet you it's almost all of that.

Give me some statistics, otherwise i'm going to say you're just imagining things.

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Alone with a woman, and no intention of having sex?

So the only possible reason a man might have to be with a woman is for sex? Any other reason is unjustified and if sex results then, well, "he was asking for it"?

For instance, job requirements are unjustified? Familial requirements (say, single mother with son) are unjustified? The only possible reason could be sex?

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Yes, that is his fault. Failing to defend himself against a (probably) physically weaker aggressor? Yes.

Let me tell you something: I do Aikido. As a part of Aikido, i get to travel around the country (unfortunately at my own expense) and train with supremely competent martial artists. Some of these are women, and they can dismantle anyone else in the building--a building full of not just random people, mind you, but actively training martial artists.

Now, that's an extreme case--just as a guess, i would say there are probably less than ten thousand people on that level in the whole of the United States, male and female--but that's not all.

Size and physical competence is not the only thing to take into consideration--aside from drugs (anyone who ever drinks deserves to be raped?) and the like there are weapons, the element of surprise, multiple attackers, and non-physical coercion. Go ahead and try to fight off three people with guns when you weren't expecting it.

But that's all silly hypotheticals, also.

The simple fact of the matter is: it happens and, unless you have extensively researched these cases, and really even if you have, you have no right to pass judgement on the victims as a group.

At all.

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No. Giving birth to a child is not forcing her to raise the child, or love the child, or do anything else for the child. Pregnancy isn't that debilitating, and she can just get a C-section if she doesn't want to go through childbirth.

But pregnancy is still support, which is what you said raped men did not have to give.

And even so, as i have noted, you can't always count on the best case scenario--as you are doing here.

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Law enforcement isn't perfect, no. That's what the 2nd Amendment and firearms are for.

Right, because the Branch Davidians let the women they abused tote guns around.

Because crazy Mormon bastards are eager to stick guns in the hands of the twelve year olds they molest, abuse, and rape.

Because the second amendment is, apparently, a guarantee that you will be armed rather than--as it actually is--a guarantee that the government cannot forcibly disarm you. (Under, of course, general circumstances.)

I suppose you're going to say that if you don't carry a loaded gun on your person 24/7 then you were, also, "asking for it"? That if someone pulls a gun on you and you don't want to risk being murdered (which, you have claimed, would be the absolutely ultimate bad thing) then you "deserved it" for being too cowardly to defend yourself?

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Also, I find it hard to beleive that non-corrupt cops would overlook a domestic violence case if the woman complained to them.

Where do you live?

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I say that if you want to kill yourself, that's your choice to make. It's a stupid, selfish, and cowardly choice, but it's your choice to make.

And yet, you know nothing of my situation. You feel comfortable passing judgement when you know basically nothing about me or the reasoning behind my choices. This is not a very defensible position!

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It is not your choice as to whether or not other people live or die.

Yet you apparently think it's your choice to decide whether fetuses live or die?

Who gave you that right--that authority?

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Yes, I knew about that statistic. You can't choose your family, you just aavoid them...

Yes, by... what...? Running away from home (if you even can)? By hiding in the family basement your whole life? Always? Every minute of every day? Never sleeping, never eating?

Is that the sort of behavior you expect?

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...You don't make freinds with the sorts of people who are going to rape you...

Yes, because people never change and always are careful to inform you in advance whether or not they will rape you.

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She isn't at fault, and she isn't being punished- at the very least, not to any significant degree. Woo, she gets fat, and her boobs get sore. Oohh... mood swings. Big whoop. It can't be that bad.

I don't think you get it.

I don't think you understand what is actually involved or the world in which we live and its implications.

You are arguing that women ought to be forced to give birth, even in all of the situations i have outlined, despite advancing no argument, reasoning, or facts that would support such a policy. Once again, vile.

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So she gets raped while drugged at the hospital? Hello, lawsuits. She's going to make millions. Not bad for nine months mild suffering, followed by a C-section, and adoption.

But she "deserved it", right? For being a wild and irresponsible woman and going to the hospital and all.

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Also, you editted your post to alter what it said, after I responded to it.

Yeah, i added the section which was clearly labelled an edit. You want me to bug an admin to bust out the server logs?

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Steal his car, and drive like hell. If he doesn't have a car, wait for him to leave for work/the pub/whatever, then pack up your belongings and start walking. There's a lot of woods out there to get lost in, and once you escape that way, he'll never find you again unless you let him.

Sadly, the world is more complicated than that. Once again, you cannot refute an specific argument by saying "yeah, but if the specifics are different you're wrong!" That's just silly.

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If you've joined a cult... well, that's your own fault for joining a freaking cult!

Or you're born into it and then David Koresh starts having sex with you when you're thirteen.

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I'm not trolling, Winter. Just trying to bat away the tangled cobwebs that you call 'morality'. What is the point of trying to protect one victim from whatever mild amount of trauma if it means victimizing someone else to a much more severe fashion?

Gee, i don't know... all of those hundreds of cases where there's much, much, much more than just "mild trauma" involved?

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Emotions are just another part of your quality of life. Murdering someone to protect your precious emotions is no better than murdering someone for money. Be rational. Emotions are worth nothing.

You're wrong. Only nihilists and the mentally ill believe emotions are truly worthless, and they're wrong too. Maybe they are for you, but you are only one person among billions and i suspect those billions value their emotions quite highly.

But maybe you know better? Maybe you have some compelling argument to put forth in your defense?

As an example, let me remind you that "crimes of passion" carry a reduced sentence than premeditated crimes of the same nature. So that's one manner in which emotions are valued.

And as far as "killing someone for money" (not "murdering", because that's circular) goes: didn't i already put forth an argument wherein precisely that is considered justified?

And you haven't even shown that a fetus/embryo/etc is a person! You're prepared to condemn others to a life of misery and pain when you have not even shown the most basic cornerstone of your claims is legitimate!

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Ryven: Everything is black and white. Everything. There is no shades of gray, ever. Understand?

Wrong!

For instance, the literal shade of gray is one case which even you could not deny.

But i suppose you don't think that counts...

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...The idea that every situation can be boiled down to who is at fault and how much they are at fault is an alien idea to you...

That's quite a claim you made there. Got any proof for it?

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...I'm right, and I'm more stubborn than anyone else here.

Oh...

Let me say this, as a courtesy:

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE FUCKING DEALING WITH!

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...And yes, a shitty life is infinitely preferable to oblivion.

Says you. Haven't you already admitted that it might be different for other people?

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...I do think before I type. Your fixation on emotions blinds you to the rational thought behind my posts,...

There's no way to put this diplomatically, but of all the posts on this thread yours have been the least rational and the least thought-out. If i had to judge, i would say Sair has been the sharpest here. (I am, of course, excluding myself due to subjectivity.)

If you want a logical, philosophical debate then feel free. Feel free to start supporting your assertions and arguments logically, i mean.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:23 am 
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I've actually stopped posting counter-argument, as Winter is doing pretty much what I would be doing, and doing it better. However, a few points.

http://www.womenscommission.org/pdf/sl_ddr03.pdf
^Search for the string "boys recall wartime sexual violence"

http://www.holisticwisdom.com/women-raping-men.htm
^ I'm not sure about the authenticity on this, but this makes sense that it would happen.

Assuming that data to be correct, men get raped. Not to such an extreme as women, but it still happens. Further, it's fairly hard to protect one's self against someone so close without removing emotion from the equation. And once you remove emotion from the equation, strange things start happening. Like the birth rate sharply declines. Neglect starts occuring as it is percieved that work on anything is an optimal use of time than spending "quality time" with family. Etc. Etc.

It seems as though the very bible you're using as a system is rooted in this sort of emotionally-charged appeal so that it could get to more people through its passion. Or, that the "unconditional love" one is supposed to offer to God and his son on this earth, Jesus Christ, is a part of the emotions you're wanting to do away with because it's worthless. Is this not a blatant contradiction on your end, Nick?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:34 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Ryven: Everything is black and white. Everything. There is no shades of gray, ever. Understand? Of course you don't. The idea that every situation can be boiled down to who is at fault and how much they are at fault is an alien idea to you. Don't worry, because I honestly don't bloody care if you understand. I'm primarily arguing with you because you're wrong, I'm right, and I'm more stubborn than anyone else here.


No, everything is not black and white. There are shades of gray, no matter how much your over-translated, fake book of "BE GEWD" says so, and you're too damn "stubborn" to see anything but that, like many, many Fundie-tards out there.

And you're right. You probably are more stubborn than anyone else here. Otherwise you would have stopped posting when you realized that no one here likes you at all. But I could also attribute that to your Religious Blinders that Fundies give out upon initiation into their freaky God cult.


Quote:
So the kid doesn't know. The mother moves on (again: emotions are useless. Leave them behind), the kid gets raised by adoptive parents who love him. Odds are, he'll never know his blood parents.


Wrong. In my family, there I have an illegitimate aunt and twin illegitimate cousins. All three of them came calling. And that's just in my family experience. There are numerous ways for an adopted kid to go looking for his or her parents, it happens every day.

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If he tracks them down as an adult, he'll be mature enough to shrug, take the fact of his unusual ancestry on board, and move on.


Only if he's an emotionless automoton with no thoughts other than how to survive. Maturity does not equal supressing all emotional states for "rationality".

Quote:
Emotions are worthless. Leave them behind. The only time they come in handy is when fear gives you the urge to survive, and the andrenaline to enhance your capabilities.


Well, then I guess that oblivion would be awesome for you, then, because there aren't any emotions there, and you won't have to deal with "supressing" them. I fucking swear, what the fuck is it with obsessive-religious types and supressing most of what makes them human? No wonder they're so snarky.

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And yes, a shitty life is infinitely preferable to oblivion. In oblivion, you don't get to eperience the joy of a new day, the crispness of the air, the songs of birds, the cuteness of cats, and the simple joys of existing.


To you. The kid whose mother blames him for ruining her life may not agree with you.

Quote:
I don't know what would happen to the kid's soul. I'm no preist. However, any life on this Earth is better than none.


Again, in your opinion.

Quote:
I do think before I type. Your fixation on emotions blinds you to the rational thought behind my posts, because we come from completely different axioms of thought.


There is no rationality in your posts. There's only cold pseudo-logic spewed forth from some Fundie-pseudo-intellectual. You're talking out your ass because you'll say anything to be right. Even if it means blaming a woman for her rape and subsequent pregnancy.

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Namely, the worth of life, and the worthlessness of emotions (both your own, and of others).


Emotions are what makes us human, and what allow us to enjoy life. Without them, we couldn't appreciate the cuteness of a kitten, or the crispness of the air. Everything would be the same to us without emotion. Supressing them is a folly, but you'll find that out in time. Have fun being lonely. The ire you've raised here with your pretentious ass-hattery is only a taste of what you're going to receive outside of your computer screen.

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Honestly, this is like trying to argue Euclidean geometry with people who think points and lines have measurable sizes.


I had the same thought. You've got a lot of growing up to do, lad.

Get the fuck off my forums, fucktwit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:49 pm 
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No. Giving birth to a child is not forcing her to raise the child, or love the child, or do anything else for the child. Pregnancy isn't that debilitating, and she can just get a C-section if she doesn't want to go through childbirth.


Having seen ten women go through a pregnancy, 8 eight of them whom I spend months at a time with (no I'm not the father, relatives) I have to say that is utter bullshit.

The last three months of a pregnancy a woman can hardly do anything besides eating and maybe walking to the bathroom. Some women handle pregnancy well, but a good deal of them do not. During those three months if a single mother has to take leave of her job because she can't do the work anymore, which is all too often the case, the bills will pile up, her credit will decline. Not all jobs have paid maternity leave. Especially those jobs available to young women, who are the majority of rape victims.

And a C-section isn't better than actually giving birth to the kid. My own mother had two c-sections, one for my brother an I because actually giving birth to us (I weighed 10 pounds 11 ounces, brother 11 pounds 10 ounces) would probably kill her. After the operation she was layed up an additional 3 weeks until they took the staples out, and another week before she could be trusted to stretch and not re-open the wound.

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I do think before I type. Your fixation on emotions blinds you to the rational thought behind my posts, because we come from completely different axioms of thought.


So, you don't like emotions? So why do you live? What purpose in life are you fulfilling? Without joy, indignation, apathy, exuberence and all the myriad of emotions we can feel, why the fuck would life be worth living? If your God made you to be void of emotions and for the soul purpose of reproducing, why the fuck did he go through the trouble of giving you emotions?

A life where the only emotions lived are apathy, sadness consternation and anger is one I do NOT want to live. My religion believes in reincarnation, life after this one, and so do some of the Christian religions. Is it so bad that the chances are I'll be born into a life of hopeless misery, I might want to hit the "restart" button and hopefully get a better ticket?

I can guess your answer, actually not guess because that'd hint that I could be wrong. You're so intent on repeating yourself and alienating everyone on this forum that I know your reply.

Emotions are what make life worth living. Without emotions, what makes us different than robots? Or bugs, or animals? (it is unclear to me whether some animals have emotions, all I know is that my dog looks fucking suicidal when I leave the house)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rational

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reason

I don't see any rational behind your arguements Nick. You just keep repeating yourself.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/circular%20logic

Note the entry there declaring it as being false logic.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=argument

You did that the first post. I haven't seen an arguement since.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:28 pm 
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This is a a stupid fuckin thread.

We're actually arguing with Nick about the responsibilty of rape on the assaulted party?

What the hell?

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 Post subject: Instead, I am making snippy remarks while watching the people with more patience than I butt their heads against a wall.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:29 pm 
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I'm not!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:35 pm 
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The idea that we're actually humoring the ass in so much as we're giving his ideas TIME distrubs me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:39 pm 
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I just like arguing, and with Nick I can't really lose the arguement. It's like fighting a war against a general who only has one strategy and won't deviate from it.


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