nick012000 wrote:
Winter: How much of the male-victim rape is man-on-man rape, or woman-on-gay-man rape? I'll bet you it's almost all of that.
Give me some statistics, otherwise i'm going to say you're just imagining things.
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Alone with a woman, and no intention of having sex?
So the only
possible reason a man might have to be with a woman is for sex? Any other reason is unjustified and if sex results then, well, "he was asking for it"?
For instance, job requirements are unjustified? Familial requirements (say, single mother with son) are unjustified? The only possible reason could be sex?
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Yes, that is his fault. Failing to defend himself against a (probably) physically weaker aggressor? Yes.
Let me tell you something: I do Aikido. As a part of Aikido, i get to travel around the country (unfortunately at my own expense) and train with
supremely competent martial artists. Some of these are women, and they can dismantle anyone else in the building--a building full of not just random people, mind you, but actively training martial artists.
Now, that's an extreme case--just as a guess, i would say there are probably less than ten thousand people on that level in the whole of the United States, male and female--but that's not all.
Size and physical competence is not the only thing to take into consideration--aside from drugs (anyone who ever drinks deserves to be raped?) and the like there are weapons, the element of surprise, multiple attackers, and non-physical coercion. Go ahead and try to fight off three people with guns when you weren't expecting it.
But that's all silly hypotheticals, also.
The simple fact of the matter is:
it happens and, unless you have extensively researched these cases, and really even if you have, you have no right to pass judgement on the victims as a group.
At all.
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No. Giving birth to a child is not forcing her to raise the child, or love the child, or do anything else for the child. Pregnancy isn't that debilitating, and she can just get a C-section if she doesn't want to go through childbirth.
But pregnancy is still
support, which is what you said raped men did not have to give.
And even so, as i have noted, you can't always count on the best case scenario--as you are doing here.
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Law enforcement isn't perfect, no. That's what the 2nd Amendment and firearms are for.
Right, because the Branch Davidians let the women they abused tote guns around.
Because crazy Mormon bastards are eager to stick guns in the hands of the twelve year olds they molest, abuse, and rape.
Because the second amendment is,
apparently, a guarantee that you will be armed rather than--as it
actually is--a guarantee that the government cannot forcibly disarm you. (Under, of course, general circumstances.)
I suppose you're going to say that if you don't carry a loaded gun on your person 24/7 then you were, also, "asking for it"? That if someone pulls a gun on you and you don't want to risk being murdered (which, you have claimed, would be the
absolutely ultimate bad thing) then you "deserved it" for being too cowardly to defend yourself?
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Also, I find it hard to beleive that non-corrupt cops would overlook a domestic violence case if the woman complained to them.
Where do you live?
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I say that if you want to kill yourself, that's your choice to make. It's a stupid, selfish, and cowardly choice, but it's your choice to make.
And yet, you know
nothing of my situation. You feel comfortable passing judgement when you know basically nothing about me or the reasoning behind my choices. This is not a very defensible position!
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It is not your choice as to whether or not other people live or die.
Yet you apparently think it's
your choice to decide whether fetuses live or die?
Who gave you that right--that authority?
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Yes, I knew about that statistic. You can't choose your family, you just aavoid them...
Yes, by... what...? Running away from home (if you even can)? By hiding in the family basement your whole life? Always? Every minute of every day? Never sleeping, never eating?
Is that the sort of behavior you expect?
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...You don't make freinds with the sorts of people who are going to rape you...
Yes, because people
never change and always are careful to inform you in advance whether or not they will rape you.
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She isn't at fault, and she isn't being punished- at the very least, not to any significant degree. Woo, she gets fat, and her boobs get sore. Oohh... mood swings. Big whoop. It can't be that bad.
I don't think you get it.
I don't think you understand what is
actually involved or the world in which we live and its implications.
You are arguing that women ought to be forced to give birth, even in all of the situations i have outlined, despite advancing no argument, reasoning, or facts that would support such a policy. Once again,
vile.
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So she gets raped while drugged at the hospital? Hello, lawsuits. She's going to make millions. Not bad for nine months mild suffering, followed by a C-section, and adoption.
But she "deserved it", right? For being a wild and irresponsible woman and going to the hospital and all.
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Also, you editted your post to alter what it said, after I responded to it.
Yeah, i added the section which was clearly labelled an edit. You want me to bug an admin to bust out the server logs?
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Steal his car, and drive like hell. If he doesn't have a car, wait for him to leave for work/the pub/whatever, then pack up your belongings and start walking. There's a lot of woods out there to get lost in, and once you escape that way, he'll never find you again unless you let him.
Sadly, the world is more complicated than that. Once again, you cannot refute an specific argument by saying "yeah, but if the specifics are different you're wrong!" That's just silly.
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If you've joined a cult... well, that's your own fault for joining a freaking cult!
Or you're born into it and then David Koresh starts having sex with you when you're thirteen.
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I'm not trolling, Winter. Just trying to bat away the tangled cobwebs that you call 'morality'. What is the point of trying to protect one victim from whatever mild amount of trauma if it means victimizing someone else to a much more severe fashion?
Gee, i don't know... all of those hundreds of cases where there's much,
much,
much more than just "mild trauma" involved?
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Emotions are just another part of your quality of life. Murdering someone to protect your precious emotions is no better than murdering someone for money. Be rational. Emotions are worth nothing.
You're wrong. Only nihilists and the mentally ill believe emotions are truly worthless, and they're wrong too. Maybe they are
for you, but you are only one person among billions and i suspect those billions value their emotions quite highly.
But maybe you know better? Maybe you have some compelling argument to put forth in your defense?
As an example, let me remind you that "crimes of passion" carry a reduced sentence than premeditated crimes of the same nature. So that's one manner in which emotions are valued.
And as far as "killing someone for money" (not "murdering", because that's circular) goes: didn't i already put forth an argument wherein precisely that is considered justified?
And you haven't even shown that a fetus/embryo/etc is a person! You're prepared to condemn others to a life of misery and pain when you have not even shown the most basic cornerstone of your claims is legitimate!
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Ryven: Everything is black and white. Everything. There is no shades of gray, ever. Understand?
Wrong!
For instance, the
literal shade of gray is one case which even you could not deny.
But i suppose you don't think that counts...
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...The idea that every situation can be boiled down to who is at fault and how much they are at fault is an alien idea to you...
That's quite a claim you made there. Got any proof for it?
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...I'm right, and I'm more stubborn than anyone else here.
Oh...
Let me say this, as a courtesy:
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE FUCKING DEALING WITH!Quote:
...And yes, a shitty life is infinitely preferable to oblivion.
Says you. Haven't you already admitted that it might be different for other people?
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...I do think before I type. Your fixation on emotions blinds you to the rational thought behind my posts,...
There's no way to put this diplomatically, but of all the posts on this thread yours have been the least rational and the least thought-out. If i had to judge, i would say Sair has been the sharpest here. (I am, of course, excluding myself due to subjectivity.)
If you want a logical, philosophical debate then feel free. Feel free to start supporting your assertions and arguments logically, i mean.