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A man is going to kill 5 billion people if you do not press a button that will kill 4 billion people. Would you press it?
Yes, kill 4 billion. 67%  67%  [ 4 ]
No, let 5 billion die 33%  33%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 6
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 Post subject: A moral dilemma -- Which of these two options do you choose?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:11 am 
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Let me propose a scenario to you.

There are two buttons. If the first button is pressed, then 5 billion humans will die. If the second button is pressed, then 4 billion humans will die. Only one of these buttons can be pressed.

There is a man standing next to the first button. You are standing next to the second button. The man is going to press the first button. If you press your button, then he will be unable to press his.

Do you press the button?

If you press the button, it will directly cause the deaths of 4 billion people. But, if you do not press the button, then 5 billion people will die. Either way, at least 4 billion people are about to die; you can't save them. But you could prevent the extra 1 billion people from dying by pushing your button.

It seems to me that the most logical choice would be to press the button and let 4 billion people die. However, I just came from a forum where every member believed that the best decision would be to not press the button. I simply cannot understand this. You may be shaking your head in awe right now, or you may be saying, "Duh, obviously it'd be right to not press the button". If you're having the latter reaction, I really want to hear your reasoning.

My reasoning:

Two options. 4 billion die or 5 billion die. I'll choose the option that makes only 4 billion die.

(And, no, in this hypothetical situation, killing the man at the other button is not an option.)

Vote on the poll above, THEN read the sentence below:










If you just voted "Yes", you just said that genocide is justifiable. How does that make you feel?

As for me, I'm not phased at all. Yes, genocide is justifiable. Anything is justifiable, to prevent something worse from happening. The direct murder of 4 billion people? Perfectly okay - as long as it's to prevent the murder of 5 billion. Raping a woman? It's perfectly okay - if it would prevent the rape of 2 women.

Circumstances can justify anything - that's my belief. Do you agree?

Discuss:

Killing 4 billion to prevent the deaths of 5 billion

Whether or not anything justifies genocide

Whether or not any act that is normally considered 'evil' can be justified by the circumstances.

Whether or not any act can be justified for the purpose of preventing something even worse from happening.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:33 am 
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You - widely accepted as a hated troll here at Kyhmforums - return the day after Christmas, to post a moronic version of the Prisoner's Dilemma.

<marquee>GET OUT</marquee>


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:29 am 
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Meh, I'd press it. And to hell with the rest of mankind, I agreed with Malthus, the more people we have the harder we have to stretch what little resources we have. While this helps us and motivates us to move forward in production and efficiency I feel that we're soon(150 years) going to hit the peak of sustainability on the planet and the crash is going to hurt a lot.


And I don't like your Cut n' Paste question.

Also don't try and go: "A bunch of people said that they wouldn't.... would you?" because that just stinks of a poorly constructed first year psychology experiment(does a group of people deciding one thing influence the decisions of an individual).

Actor.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:34 am 
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That question is stupid.

You are stupid.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:42 am 
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YOU SAID YOU LEFT
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if i track you down, break into your home and smash your fingers up with a ball peen hammer, you will no longer post. :billnye:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:47 am 
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Tune in next week, when EvaXephon discovers the Sorites paradox and applies it to abortions. :v


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:06 am 
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Kestenvarn wrote:
You - widely accepted as a hated troll here at Kyhmforums - return the day after Christmas, to post a moronic version of the Prisoner's Dilemma.

<marquee>GET OUT</marquee>


It's not even really the Prisoner's Dilemma, because that had the whole "Do I trust the other guy, or is he gonna screw me over?" scenario.

Also, if I ever had a doubt Kest had SEKRET admin powers, I don't anymore.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:09 am 
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But guys don't you see? Genocide is ...ok. That means we're Hitler.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:31 am 
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onion wrote:
But guys don't you see? Genocide is ...ok. That means we're Hitler.
Image

Actor.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:25 am 
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...I always fucking knew it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:51 pm 
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I would let 5 billion die because I worry about a Malthusian crisis.

Also <a href="http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2770344">lol</a> <a href="http://www.sinfest.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=67560">lol</a>

I'm sure there's more but I really don't care enough to go past the first page of google hits for "evaxephon".

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:16 pm 
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Out of all those responses, I believe ours was the most appropriate: a short drop and a sudden stop.



If you could kill EvaXephon to save five billion people from destruction, would you?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:49 pm 
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Oh shit I just noticed Actor mentioned Malthus; High five Actor, high five.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:24 pm 
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Let me propose some moral dilemmas to you...

1. You're walking along a country road. It's a beautiful spring day.
As you walk along, you notice that up ahead in the distance,
lying in the middle of the road in the dirt, is a tiny baby
sparrow. Both its wings are broken. You have....a hammer.

2. You're a medical student in your final year of study. It's a very
very important year for you. Because of the economic climate,
you've been forced to live with your grandmother. She's a tattoo
artist - with Parkinson's disease. Every time she makes you a cup
of coffee she shakes so much it froths up the milk on top, which
is something you can't fucking stand. You have....a hammer.

3. You're a young and upwardly mobile merchant banker. Your
girlfriend has just fallen pregnant. You think a child at this
point in your career could be detrimental to your future career
prospects. You have....a coathanger.

4. You are an arctic explorer. For the past six months you've been
travelling through the arctic waste. It has been a period of
intense isolation and loneliness for you, devoid of contact with
any other human being. On this particular day you're walking
along a stretch of beach some eight kilometers in length. At the
far end of that beach, basking itself on a broad, flat rock
there's a beautiful, white, baby seal. As you approach you notice
that its eyes are like two deep, brown pools. Its fur is as fresh
and as clean and as white as the driven snow around it. It is an
unsurpassed beauty and splendor between man, beast and nature.
You have ....an erection.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:31 pm 
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Kestenvarn wrote:
Out of all those responses, I believe ours was the most appropriate: a short drop and a sudden stop.

If you could kill EvaXephon to save five billion people from destruction, would you?

Along with with a few million other people who don't understand that there are no absolute rules for ethical decisions in real life, which pretty much all philosophers understand, and which only someone who thinks like a spoiled child would not understand does not by itself render inviolate any well-developed ethical system?

Life involves a lot of tough, complicated decisions. If you are too much of a coward to make them without drifting into the pit of hog-in-the-trough egotism selfishness, you should have the humility to stay out of the discussion.

The Lutheran catechism we studied when I was twelve made it clear that the Ten Commandments required thoughtful elaboration in practice. It isn't any surprise to find out that supposedly Christian preachers who claim absolute authority in scripture routinely get caught stealing from the collection plate, doping themselves into a stupor, and dallying regularly with female and male prostitutes, one or the other or both.

Sigh. Wish I had time for something other than a quick tirade. Those of you who've actually studied past freshman level philosophy courses, carry on, please.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:31 pm 
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Thank you for that.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:52 am 
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Vass wrote:
Let me propose some moral dilemmas to you...

1. You're walking along a country road. It's a beautiful spring day.
As you walk along, you notice that up ahead in the distance,
lying in the middle of the road in the dirt, is a tiny baby
sparrow. Both its wings are broken. You have....a hammer.

2. You're a medical student in your final year of study. It's a very
very important year for you. Because of the economic climate,
you've been forced to live with your grandmother. She's a tattoo
artist - with Parkinson's disease. Every time she makes you a cup
of coffee she shakes so much it froths up the milk on top, which
is something you can't fucking stand. You have....a hammer.

3. You're a young and upwardly mobile merchant banker. Your
girlfriend has just fallen pregnant. You think a child at this
point in your career could be detrimental to your future career
prospects. You have....a coathanger.

4. You are an arctic explorer. For the past six months you've been
travelling through the arctic waste. It has been a period of
intense isolation and loneliness for you, devoid of contact with
any other human being. On this particular day you're walking
along a stretch of beach some eight kilometers in length. At the
far end of that beach, basking itself on a broad, flat rock
there's a beautiful, white, baby seal. As you approach you notice
that its eyes are like two deep, brown pools. Its fur is as fresh
and as clean and as white as the driven snow around it. It is an
unsurpassed beauty and splendor between man, beast and nature.
You have ....an erection.


1. Kill it

2. send her to an old folks home

3. make the baby live with her mother

4. use my erection to kill it then skin it for precious heat containing skin.

@kest: could I still kill him and have 5 billion people die?

And oh yeah that is totally my vote for letting 5 billion die, if you are going to kill off billions you might as well kill off as many as possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:20 am 
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I would kill EvaXephon even if 5 billion people weren't put in danger by his continued survival.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:12 am 
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Vass wrote:
Let me propose some moral dilemmas to you...
1. You're walking along a country road. It's a beautiful spring day. As you walk along, you notice that up ahead in the distance, lying in the middle of the road in the dirt, is a tiny baby sparrow. Both its wings are broken. You have....a hammer.

STICK IT IN HER POOPER!

Vass wrote:
2. You're a medical student in your final year of study. It's a very very important year for you. Because of the economic climate, you've been forced to live with your grandmother. She's a tattoo artist - with Parkinson's disease. Every time she makes you a cup of coffee she shakes so much it froths up the milk on top, which is something you can't fucking stand. You have....a hammer.

STICK IT IN HER POOPER!

Vass wrote:
3. You're a young and upwardly mobile merchant banker. Your girlfriend has just fallen pregnant. You think a child at this point in your career could be detrimental to your future career prospects. You have....a coathanger.

STICK IT IN HER POOPER!

Vass wrote:
4. You are an arctic explorer. For the past six months you've been travelling through the arctic waste. It has been a period of intense isolation and loneliness for you, devoid of contact with any other human being. On this particular day you're walking along a stretch of beach some eight kilometers in length. At the far end of that beach, basking itself on a broad, flat rock there's a beautiful, white, baby seal. As you approach you notice that its eyes are like two deep, brown pools. Its fur is as fresh and as clean and as white as the driven snow around it. It is an unsurpassed beauty and splendor between man, beast and nature. You have ....an erection.

STICK IT IN HER POOPER!

Actor.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:54 pm 
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Actor. A man of action!


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