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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:36 pm 
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You and I know that Sara however is in a position where you'd be inclined to question the truth of that statement. Afterall think about it you were put into an orphanage because no one could find your brother, spent years training under this influential order and then they by an amazing coincidence found your brother just in time for you to kill him to prove your loyalty as your final exam.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:05 am 
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Senko wrote:
You and I know that Sara however is in a position where you'd be inclined to question the truth of that statement. Afterall think about it you were put into an orphanage because no one could find your brother, spent years training under this influential order and then they by an amazing coincidence found your brother just in time for you to kill him to prove your loyalty as your final exam.


It's not really so much of a coincidence. It's "We're gonna mess with the wraiths. Hey! This wraith is Sara's brother! Hey Sara. We found your brother. We want you to kill him to prove you're really loyal to us. We were gonna kill him anyway, but no. You do it."

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:18 am 
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Yes and what I'm saying is if you were Sara and knew what she knew not what we know would you find nothing suspicious about the timing of the whole thing?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:30 am 
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Why would she? It was pretty much spelled out to her, not only by the leaders, but by warrel too, that this was a test of loyalty, and how they would set it up. Hardly a reason for her to wonder whats going on.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:51 am 
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I guess we just have different opinions on this then for me if I was her I wouldn't be able to help wondering why they never mentioned his existence up until this point.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:28 am 
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Because they didn't KNOW he was around before. The first hint Saras brother was even alive was when they got reports from the patsy who was setting up the fake hit.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:31 am 
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As I said you and I know that was true but if I was her I'd wonder about the timing afterall this can't be the first time he's come into contact with them, in fact I think he was the assasin who's already taken out a target they were protecting.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:57 am 
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Ok, Rubber and Forrest, this is the point Senko is trying to make....

The Ensigerum did not know about Jon. They never knew where he was, they only knew that Sara had a brother, and that he could not be found when their mother died, which is why Sara went to the orphanage. However, they could probably put two and two together, see that the assassin's name is Jon Amphrael(sp?), think to themselves "Hey, this girls name is Sara Amphrael", and figure it out.

However, Sara does not know that the Ensigerum did not know all along where her brother was. She has been through brutal training for years, and while yes, it did give her a purpose and a family, the only reason that she was not with her brother is that they "could not find him". She has had a far from normal childhood, and I think that if she were to blame anyone for it, it would be her mother or the Ensigerum. As far as any feelings of resentment for Jon go, she may or may not have been old enough to remember that he took a despicable job to provide for the family and got no thanks for it.

Well, that was getting a bit off the point, but the general idea is that it may very well look to her like it is very convenient that the Ensigerum just happened to "find" her brother at the same time that they were considering raising her to a full monk. Yes, you and I know that they actually did accidentally find him. But to Sara, one would think that it may look awfully convenient. She may be questioning this right now, and that may put doubt into her mind. She may have reason to resent Jon, after all, when their mother kicked him out nothing said that he had to stay so far away that no one could find him when she needed him the most. But, in reality, she doesn't have all THAT much reason to resent or hate him, it may just seem that way to her.

To us, it seems simple, but to Sara this is years and years of her life, and I'd be wondering what the fuck right about now. Besides, we've seen that she isn't necesarily a cold, brainwashed killer. She was honest with Chris, and she seemed to enjoy taking care of the children in the Ensigerum's "nursery". She looks slightly upset right now, but this has got to be a tense situation for her, and if nothing else she didn't automatically time-ninja out and cut her brother in two, which, as we've all seen, she is more than capable of.


........Is that the longest post I have made on any forum ever? It may very well have been.......Ye gods, what have I done!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:02 am 
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Yes thank you that is the point I was trying to make.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:27 am 
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Ahh, I get what you are trying to say too. We ought to chip in and give Sylvarius a bag of kudos.

I still somehow doubt that the order made it sound like she could leave at any time, and that she knows she was in for the long term...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:52 am 
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Sylvarius wrote:
To us, it seems simple, but to Sara this is years and years of her life, and I'd be wondering what the fuck right about now. Besides, we've seen that she isn't necesarily a cold, brainwashed killer. She was honest with Chris, and she seemed to enjoy taking care of the children in the Ensigerum's "nursery". She looks slightly upset right now, but this has got to be a tense situation for her, and if nothing else she didn't automatically time-ninja out and cut her brother in two, which, as we've all seen, she is more than capable of.

Mebbe she perceives the ensigerum as more of a family than her real family ever was. You know, in a mafia/marine corps kind of family thing. Also, Warrel does seem to sort of care about her, which helps with the familial impression. This would, in part, account for her lack of concern about the fact that she has to kill someone related to her by blood.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:38 am 
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Warrel sleeps with her. Doesn't mean he shows he cares about her. Hell, she could be simply consenting to it because she figures it's what is expected of her. But from her perspective, her relationship with Warrel could very well be strictly professional, regardless of what Warrel feels.

This is really the first time we see any amount of conflict from Sara. She's always shown cold and uncaring, except that time in the nursery. Apathetic, wold be a better word for it. She's not apathetic now, though, and that's as good news as Jon could have hoped for.

As for Jon not knowing where she was, he knew she was in an orphanage, and when she left it he figured she was taken in by a family that would be better able to take care of her. I'd link to where he points it out, but I'm lazy. It's right after they pick up Sarine, while he speaks with the bartender that says he's a nice guy. Strictly, Jon says Sara is with a family that will be better able to provide for her than he ever could, that he knew she was taken to an orphanage is my own interpretation of that.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:30 am 
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Sylvarius wrote:
........Is that the longest post I have made on any forum ever? It may very well have been.......Ye gods, what have I done!


Congratulations, you have joined the ranks of the soliloquacious. It is a fine order filled with many great philosophers and authors. Be proud.

I've never quite gotten why long posts, if written and formatted well with paragraphs and all, would be frowned upon. That's one reason I've never been fond of linear-threaded forums like this (as opposed to multithreaded forums that use things like WebBBS)... they often seem to look down on any kind of deep thought.

This one is a pleasant exception to that correlation.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:46 am 
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Kian wrote:
<b>Warrel sleeps with her.</b> Doesn't mean he shows he cares about her. Hell, she could be simply consenting to it because she figures it's what is expected of her. But from her perspective, her relationship with Warrel could very well be strictly professional, regardless of what Warrel feels.


What the <i>fuck?</i> Where the hell did that come from?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:51 am 
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Tiamat wrote:
Kian wrote:
<b>Warrel sleeps with her.</b> Doesn't mean he shows he cares about her. Hell, she could be simply consenting to it because she figures it's what is expected of her. But from her perspective, her relationship with Warrel could very well be strictly professional, regardless of what Warrel feels.

What the <i>fuck?</i> Where the hell did that come from?

Huh? Yeah, is this a heterosexual version of ancient Sparta, where all the trainees have to sexually initiated by their sensai?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:36 am 
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Tiamat wrote:
Kian wrote:
<b>Warrel sleeps with her.</b> Doesn't mean he shows he cares about her. Hell, she could be simply consenting to it because she figures it's what is expected of her. But from her perspective, her relationship with Warrel could very well be strictly professional, regardless of what Warrel feels.


What the <i>fuck?</i> Where the hell did that come from?


See the pages right after Sara's little transcendental flashback, where Warrel mentions to Sara that the mark is her brother. He's getting dressed. Kinda has some implications.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:57 am 
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Forrest wrote:
Tiamat wrote:
Kian wrote:
<b>Warrel sleeps with her.</b> Doesn't mean he shows he cares about her. Hell, she could be simply consenting to it because she figures it's what is expected of her. But from her perspective, her relationship with Warrel could very well be strictly professional, regardless of what Warrel feels.


What the <i>fuck?</i> Where the hell did that come from?


See the pages right after Sara's little transcendental flashback, where Warrel mentions to Sara that the mark is her brother. He's getting dressed. Kinda has some implications.


I thought you were reading too much into it until I went back and reread that page. It says that she slipped on her novice robes. Based on the next page she is wearing nothing but her novice robes; that means that she was naked. The last line of the paragraph says that Warren "reentered the room." Hmmm... Maybe I am reading into it too much now.

http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2006-08-19
http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2006-08-21

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:11 pm 
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Okay, so I tend to jump to conclusions. But really, unless they have naked sparring or something, which we don't have any evideence to support, one has to assume that there was some other thing that they were doing naked together.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:34 pm 
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In various fantasy worlds, numbers of pseudo-spiritual/magical groups (often quite similar to these monks in attitude) have meditation exercises and other similar type things that require minimal (or no) clothing. Don't read too much into it... yet.

It is also not at all inconceivable that part of a teacher's job is to completely "break" their student in the process of training, which could include sex among other things. That, too, would not be out of character for the type of organization this has been shown to be thus far.

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