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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:11 am 
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Slamlander wrote:
Killjoy wrote:
Hape?


Go to Durus Flamma in the wiki. In the drawing, second one down, is a picture of a Durus Flamma Hape. We don't have enough detailed information to make seperate articles for Spatha, Hape, Dolon, and Lanceas.


Actually, Lancea and Dolon do have separate articles, although they're quite brief. Nothing yet on Hape and Spatha. Patience...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:02 am 
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Slamlander wrote:
You need to work on your parser and syntax analyzer. :roll: The mind-wipe won't be necessary because there wont be anything to wipe. The event won't happen. Normal guys tend to be more than a mite skittish and inhibited with little sisters present. Jon's more than a a little normal in that regard.

I hope that's enough bread-crumbs for you. :wink:

Let me know your native language and I'll try to accomodate you. :-P

When you said bread-crumbs, did you refer to mixing up of syntax and semantics, or your misspelling? But if you insist... Let's go for Japanese, you might actually have a chance then.

If they're horny enough, they'll do what every other couple on earth has done when faced with having a little sister around: Go deep enough into the forest so that they can pretend she won't hear.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:45 am 
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When you've got a blade that can cut through anything and is light and unbreakably strong, you want more blade length than anything else so the Hape is better than the spatha although i think a rapier lenght blade would be much more effective than the Hapes length? You only use a short sword if you have to do much fighting in a shield wall.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:39 pm 
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When you got a blade that can cut through anything, what you want is to be able to hit your opponent before he does you. Mass of the weapon is no longer necessary for damage, but is a hinder when handling it. Not saying a long blade isn't useful, but perhaps not as useful as you would first imagine.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Rakshasa wrote:
When you got a blade that can cut through anything, what you want is to be able to hit your opponent before he does you. Mass of the weapon is no longer necessary for damage, but is a hinder when handling it. Not saying a long blade isn't useful, but perhaps not as useful as you would first imagine.

Reach should be everything with a blade that lethal. There's a reason the spear has never gone completely out of fashion over the last fifty thousand years.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Since it's a magically powered blade, there might be other non-obvious restrictions on the blade geometry. Long, thin blades might be more difficult to maintain in the drawn state. Maybe certain blade configurations could lower the auditory/visual disruption in elves. Who knows if one-handed vs. two-handed makes a difference. There's also production cost to consider, I suppose.

Just randomly speculating.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:33 pm 
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Boss Out of Town wrote:
Rakshasa wrote:
When you got a blade that can cut through anything, what you want is to be able to hit your opponent before he does you. Mass of the weapon is no longer necessary for damage, but is a hinder when handling it. Not saying a long blade isn't useful, but perhaps not as useful as you would first imagine.

Reach should be everything with a blade that lethal. There's a reason the spear has never gone completely out of fashion over the last fifty thousand years.

And a reason ranged weapons have changed the course of history on countless occasions.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:44 pm 
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Rakshasa wrote:
Slamlander wrote:
You need to work on your parser and syntax analyzer. :roll: The mind-wipe won't be necessary because there wont be anything to wipe. The event won't happen. Normal guys tend to be more than a mite skittish and inhibited with little sisters present. Jon's more than a a little normal in that regard.

I hope that's enough bread-crumbs for you. :wink:

Let me know your native language and I'll try to accomodate you. :-P

When you said bread-crumbs, did you refer to mixing up of syntax and semantics, or your misspelling? But if you insist... Let's go for Japanese, you might actually have a chance then.

If they're horny enough, they'll do what every other couple on earth has done when faced with having a little sister around: Go deep enough into the forest so that they can pretend she won't hear.


Ah, a wannabe spelling nazi. Go fer it dude. Where are the spelling errors in the original post (typos don't count and neither do intentional idiomatic spellings)? :evil:

If I actually believed that you could, I might. But I only said that I'd try.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:14 pm 
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Mestro wrote:
When you've got a blade that can cut through anything and is light and unbreakably strong, you want more blade length than anything else so the Hape is better than the spatha although i think a rapier lenght blade would be much more effective than the Hapes length? You only use a short sword if you have to do much fighting in a shield wall.


Well, rapiers are thrusting weapons, the very definition of bad weapon designis to take an uber cutting material and make a thrusting weapon out of it...

The Hape, on the other hand, is very clearly a slashing weapon like a Katana or Sabre. Now, speaking as a Sabre fencer, there are practical limits on how long a slashing weapon can be whilst retaining enough agility to be usable in a fight. I would say the classical yardstick of, well, about a yard is pretty optimal for a human sized duelist. I've certainly weilded longer single handed weapons and they are unwieldy to say the least. It's nothing to do with the weight but instead it's very dificult to manuver such a long weapon around your opponents blade.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:14 pm 
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Hell I'd love to see one o'dem badass magic blades affixed to one end of a 3-part staff.

And yes, this urge is inspired by a recently aired episode of Bleach.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Ah. Detergent.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:09 pm 
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Getz wrote:
Well, rapiers are thrusting weapons, the very definition of bad weapon designis to take an uber cutting material and make a thrusting weapon out of it...


Maybe not: In Sarines fight with Melrin his durus flamma failed to cut through her short sword completly, so it may have a limit in its 'cutting power'. And later Misa offered elven armor to Sarine, which I think could be not only better but perhaps also built with durus flamma in mind (not neccessarily perfect protection, just better). So a slashing weapon may get stuck in armor before cuting deep enough to kill - enter piercing weapons, classicaly used against heavy armor...

Anyway I just remembered Hape has a curved blade - slashing...

As for a 3-part-staff - I hear controling it is difficult, could be deadly to the user that wasn't a master with it, or just unlucky once... just once.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:57 pm 
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pillaroforder wrote:
Getz wrote:
Well, rapiers are thrusting weapons, the very definition of bad weapon designis to take an uber cutting material and make a thrusting weapon out of it...


Maybe not: In Sarines fight with Melrin his durus flamma failed to cut through her short sword completly, so it may have a limit in its 'cutting power'. And later Misa offered elven armor to Sarine, which I think could be not only better but perhaps also built with durus flamma in mind (not neccessarily perfect protection, just better). So a slashing weapon may get stuck in armor before cuting deep enough to kill - enter piercing weapons, classicaly used against heavy armor...

Anyway I just remembered Hape has a curved blade - slashing...

As for a 3-part-staff - I hear controling it is difficult, could be deadly to the user that wasn't a master with it, or just unlucky once... just once.


A three-sectional staff has no blades for a number of reasons. The main one being that they are dangerous to the user, even without blades. It is also impossible to control the edge orientation.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:07 am 
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Eh, it'd work with a Lightsaber at least...

A Star Wars nerd can dream...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:43 am 
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Getz wrote:
Well, rapiers are thrusting weapons, the very definition of bad weapon designis to take an uber cutting material and make a thrusting weapon out of it...


I was talking about the length of the rapier, not necessarily the trusting use of it. It depends on the cutting material too, the Durus Flamma vibrates, but I wonder how thick the blade is, the thickness of the blade would put a limit to how deep it could cut on a stroke. The sides of the cut would clamp on the blade, vibra-handle instead of vibra-blade.. And the point would be like a very fast jack-hammer action, it might not be the actual thrusting power of the wielder that punches the tip in, but the hammering that the point gives to the impacted surface as it approaches contact.

Reason for a curved blade for slashing is so that you can have a slicing action at point of impact instead of chopping at the point of impact. If you have a slice through anything Durus Flamma, a curved blade is pointless since you don't need the slicing action.

Thick blades are pointless since the Durus Flamma is unbreakable, you don't need the added strength a wider blade gives you. So the best Durus Flamma balde shape should look like a Rapier, long, thin, narrow and light. Three maybe four feet in length for the tall elves.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:27 am 
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'I dub thee the Arms&Armor thread'

Thin, straight, long, glowing - Lucas would have a field day with that in court - as if durus flamma wasn't a fantasy light-sabre equivalent as it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:36 am 
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Mestro wrote:
The sides of the cut would clamp on the blade, vibra-handle instead of vibra-blade.


That shouldn't be a problem because the blade is not physically attached to the hilt. It floats free in the air magically attached to the hilt. The vibration would not be transmitted to the hilt.

In regards to the best style of weapon I think the Lancea is actually the worst from a general melee standpoint in that it has the least indestrutable blade and the most vulnerable shaft. A sword would be far safer in that in order to strike and destroy the hilt you've already cut off your oppenants hands. Against a Dolon or Lancea you can simply strike past the blade at the handle and destroy the weapon.

Using a traditional weapon this would be hard but with the "slice anything" blade it would be easy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:42 am 
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Oy...

Okay, let's see. They're not bloody light sabers, the blades do have some amount of mass to them and you do get some degree of resistance cutting through objects.

The Harpe's design was patterned directly after the style of bastard swords favored by the elves rather than designed around the weapon's properties. And as the swords never really found much conventual use, the elves never saw a reason to further develop them from that design.

The standard elven fighting style is primarily a two-handed slashing style with occasional drops to a one-handed grip to deliver a spell with the free hand as opportunity and personal preference allows.

The Lanceas were pretty much exclusively the weapons of the Ensigerum, as the elves really didn't want humans running around with ,what by that point, were considered their special racial weapons so they instead got derivative spears instead. (There were a few exceptions though) The Dolan came about later as a purely ceremonial and demonstrative piece as it looked really cool as all hell when being swung around but was considered far too impractical to be used as an actual weapon (this generally remains the common opinion of it even in the present setting of the story as well and was the basis of many snide remarks directed towards Anita before she gained her current position).


Lastly, the Spatha came about some time after the Ensigerum was ejected by the elves. It creation was the result of requests for a more compact weapon. Lacking much in imagination, they basically just shrunk the lancea's basic design down to smaller short sword size. It is the second most common style of weapon used by the monks after the Lancea.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Mestro wrote:
Getz wrote:
Well, rapiers are thrusting weapons, the very definition of bad weapon designis to take an uber cutting material and make a thrusting weapon out of it...


I was talking about the length of the rapier, not necessarily the trusting use of it. It depends on the cutting material too, the Durus Flamma vibrates, but I wonder how thick the blade is, the thickness of the blade would put a limit to how deep it could cut on a stroke. The sides of the cut would clamp on the blade, vibra-handle instead of vibra-blade.. And the point would be like a very fast jack-hammer action, it might not be the actual thrusting power of the wielder that punches the tip in, but the hammering that the point gives to the impacted surface as it approaches contact.

Reason for a curved blade for slashing is so that you can have a slicing action at point of impact instead of chopping at the point of impact. If you have a slice through anything Durus Flamma, a curved blade is pointless since you don't need the slicing action.

Thick blades are pointless since the Durus Flamma is unbreakable, you don't need the added strength a wider blade gives you. So the best Durus Flamma balde shape should look like a Rapier, long, thin, narrow and light. Three maybe four feet in length for the tall elves.


Modern fencing epees - one of the descendants of the rapier - is, ironically, the heaviest of the three modern Fencing weapons: foil, sabre and epee. I've fenced all three. I hate epee, dislike the foil, adore the sabre.

The blade has to have some weight for balance, so even if you could make ultra-lightweight blades, I think you'd end up with putting some weight in the blade. A lot of sabres were made with two edges and a point - I owned one exactly like this - and distinctly un-curved.

If I were to specify a Durus Flamma, I'd go for double-edged, flat triangular x-section blade that can cut and thrust. Far more options in a fight, and easy to withdraw from between an opponents ribs because of the x-section.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:58 pm 
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pillaroforder wrote:
Thin, straight, long, glowing

An H-game protagonist's penis?


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